Who Won The Vice Presidential Debate 2008?

This debate is normally relatively ignored. It is not considered important in general, and it usually does not draw much of an audience.  This year was played up as being different.

We watched this debate, and from our vantage point, neither candidate made it worth watching.  Biden was interrupting and off topic, focusing on attacking McCain and Bush rather than addressing the actual issues and the future.  His personal focus was on the “little guy”.  Palin was obviously nervous.  She focused on her ticket’s future agenda.  From a personal perspective, she focused on moms and identifying with family and people in America.

Palin was not aggressive enough or mean enough to deal with an opponent bent on negative and accusatory politics.  She also does not have the background to really debate the past in Washington.

Palin did come across as a very positive, forthright and honest person.  We believe America will like her and identify with her more than with Biden.

Our main complaint in Palin’s comments is she keeps on blaming Wall Street, and she should focus more on policies that created an environment that not only made bad loans possible, but encouraged them.  And those policies have been in place for decades, but were most strongly pushed in the late 1980s.

We don’t see either candidate swaying the partisan vote, or even the undecided.  We are not saying the debate was a waste of time, but it didn’t present anything new.  The bottom line we see from both parties is they both want change going forward having learned from past mistakes.  Biden seemed more bent on criticizing the past, but we find that funny seeing as he has been around for three decades.  We understand though.  It is the in thing to hate Bush.  Other than that, it was just basically a repeat of the policies already stated in the first Presidential debate.

Palin did get a chance to call Biden on a number of his positions that now directly contradict positions he had taken when running against Obama in the primaries.  Biden got to attack the “Maverick” concept of McCain.

Palin did deliver partially on arguing for tapping US resources, and it was interesting to see Biden actually move towards clean coal!  But neither gives a plan we can grasp for how we get to energy independence.  McCain, because he is behind, needs to grab the reigns there and provide a clear plan, because it is a major differentiator.  He should also push getting Iraq to financially assist in the war.  We think that would kill the Obama financial justification of a fast exit strategy.

We think Obama, going forward, should be more forthright in the hows and not the what’s.  We are getting kind of sick of hearing how wrong headed Bush was, and how this is wrong and that is wrong, and this is what we are going to do differently, etc.  We want to know HOW!! Do that, and you get our vote.

Biden only had one major gaffe.  On a bill which Obama voted for, which would have raised taxes on people making as little as $42000 a year, Biden said McCain voted the same way on that bill.  McCain did not even vote on the bill.

Palin had one gaffe, getting the name of the General in Afghanistan wrong.

Palin had some problems in knowing which bills were which in some instances.  But Biden kept commenting to “go look it up”, which we find a silly debate comeback, having heard it again and again in conversations when the other party had run out of real arguments.

We think overall, Palin won.  Why?  Because she didn’t lose.  Biden has over 30 years of experience in Washington and is known for his debating skills.  Governor Palin has little exposure to this kind of debate, and yet Biden failed to convince us the Democratic ticket was the better choice.  Biden should have wiped the floor with Palin lipstick, and he gained little, if any ground.

If you want more on the debates, please read this:

Who Caused The Financial Meltdown? Was McCain Negligent? 2008 Presidential Debates Don’t Tell All.

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48 thoughts on “Who Won The Vice Presidential Debate 2008?”

  1. The article seems right on to me. Biden lost because he came across as a negative bitter old man.

    The Democrats are whining that the Republicans are running a negative campaign, when the one that was bitter and negative in the debate was Biden. Made him look the fool.

  2. Woah, I skimmed the first few paragraphs, maybe we saw a different debate! Otherwise, maybe you should have let things soak in over the course of the next couple days… Biden very clearly won the 2008 vice presidential debates…

  3. biden was caught in a straight lie..if you want a liar for a vp and hell if the vps a liar..whos to say anything the president says he will do..will actually happen..Palin brought up a direct quote from Obama and Biden protested it and Palin called him out by saying he will see it when the whole “he said she said” deal occurs..that is when Biden foundout everyone knew he was a shithead and his credibility was lost..from then on his nerves overtook him and he became shaky throughout the rest of the debate

  4. Originally Posted By SpaghettiCat
    I am a registered republican and I think Palin’s in over her head. I refuse to shill for her… can’t do it. Saying she won because she didn’t fall flat on her face is ridiculous. Is that how low the bar is these days? I did it for Bush in 04 and I can’t shill anymore for folksy hicks who are out of their element. I mean I feel more qualified than her… and I know I am smarter as evidence by Katie Couric’s so called “gotcha interview questions”. I am sorry but asking where one gets their news is not gotcha. Not being able to come up with any supreme court cases is not gotcha. Her foreign policy responses are a farce. I will either sit this one out, protest vote for Ron Paul or maybe even hold my nose and vote for Obama. Had McCain picked just about anyone else he would have had my vote… and I have plenty Republican friends who feel the same as I do… we can’t get behind anyone this time round. And it’s cause Palin’s on the ticket. Depressing.

    Sure you’re a Republican, and we are hobbits.

  5. I am a registered republican and I think Palin’s in over her head. I refuse to shill for her… can’t do it. Saying she won because she didn’t fall flat on her face is ridiculous. Is that how low the bar is these days? I did it for Bush in 04 and I can’t shill anymore for folksy hicks who are out of their element. I mean I feel more qualified than her… and I know I am smarter as evidence by Katie Couric’s so called “gotcha interview questions”. I am sorry but asking where one gets their news is not gotcha. Not being able to come up with any supreme court cases is not gotcha. Her foreign policy responses are a farce. I will either sit this one out, protest vote for Ron Paul or maybe even hold my nose and vote for Obama. Had McCain picked just about anyone else he would have had my vote… and I have plenty Republican friends who feel the same as I do… we can’t get behind anyone this time round. And it’s cause Palin’s on the ticket. Depressing.

  6. Originally Posted By Jillie RN
    Like I said, whoever wrote this nonsense up above is smoking crack or needs to be smoking it to get some clarity. Maybe come back to earth. Palin was obviously aggressive , accusatory (esp. about that Obama tax bill, check out CNN Larry King 10.03.08, because what she said was not true and it was FACT CHECKED), and she was CLEARLY out of her depth. She had NO respect for her opponent, resorted to this ” I am a maverick” b.s., making it a travesty of the political process. She doesn’t know squat about the economy and I actually feel that she thinks John McCain won the Vietnam War. And what the hell was with the winks? What is she a car salesman? As a woman, I saddened that she think all us chicks must identify with her…NOT. She is an idiot and bottom line, being folksy and condescending isn’t going to cut it with foreign policy, diplomacy with the countries that we have non-existent or very fragile relationship with will chew her up and spit her out. She sounded scripted and I was extremely annoyed that she is making this a “soccer-mom” party and not concentrating on the issues. She didn’t even answer the questions when asked directly and she also blew off the moderator when the moderator told her she wasn’t responding to what was asked. I don’t care how pretty she is…she’s an idiot. I know better looking women who are smarter than that. Biden used remarkable restraint when he should have roasted her dumb ass.

    Jill, you really have to calm down. People that disagree with your totally liberal leanings are not all on crack. Read the article again, calmly, and realize it states exactly what many other articles in non-liberal outlets are saying, that the debate helped McCain because Biden acted like a bitter old man. Palin didn’t lose, in fact most non-liberals call it a tie or a slight edge to Palin. Because of that she helped the campaign. In our statement, we concluded that she won solely because she didn’t lose. The reason she didn’t lose is because Biden went way off topic attacking McCain instead of discussing the issues. He came across as bitter and unlikable.

  7. @DSW – Last night’s debate was akin to a junior high cheerleader debating a college professor. Yes, the playing surface was uneven – but we, the American public, are not at fault because John McCain decided to elevate to the national stage a political lightweight like Sarah Palin. To say that Sarah Palin “won” the debate is myopic at best and, at worst, is to proffer a degree of moral equivalency that grants Palin points for simply showing up, for simply mouthing positions that were forcibly crammed into her head for the past five point five weeks, and for not flopping entirely on her face. The question is this – does she understand anything that she uttered, muttered, fumbled or spouted? I give her credit for doing better than I thought she would. But I don’t give her credit for being in way over her head. Face it, she doesn’t belong in the same ballpark with Biden who is well-versed, informed, experienced, empathic, knowledgeable, and capable of sitting in the hot seat. Sarah Palin won the debate? Hah. What will you do for an encore, translate her speaking in tongues? Keep me posted. Meanwhile, all hands report to the polling place come November 4th to pull the lever for Obama/Biden.

  8. @Casey

    With all due respect, Biden can’t go around to the rest of the world and use Bush sucks as his primary international negotiation tactic.

    We thought she handled him quite well for her first time out. He, on the other hand, seemed quite flustered.

    Did you know he said that he would be honored to run with McCain on a ticket because he thinks the country would be better off? Wow. I would have loved to see her call him on that one.

  9. @DSW
    we do agree with you for the most part. We were disappointed to not see her use the fact that Biden said it would be an honor to run with McCain, or at least stress it more clearly. And we are disappointed in a few other things that go to inexperience.

    But Biden was just bitter. A few positive points then it was Bush this, past Administration that, McCain is no maverick, he is this and that. I don’t want to hear that for the next four years.

  10. @Jake the Kid

    Joe was a bitter attacker who just a short while ago endorsed McCain and said he would be honored to run on a ticket with him because the country would be better off. He also said that Obama was not experienced enough to be President.

    Joe’s bitterness was not only unnecessary, it was hypocritical.

  11. Wow,

    I like how the makers of the poll try to prep you to vote Palin as the winner with that little excerpt in the beginning.
    Personally, I saw a bitter and angry look on Palin’s face as she was regurgitating her attack points. Maybe it was nerves, but who knows? What I do know is that Joe Biden looked much more like a normal “Joe” than Sarah Palin did, despite one of her opening answers including a shout out to the hockey moms…….

  12. It was refreshing to finally see a candidate that obviously is not entrenched in the Washington bureacratic machine. Palin came across as just who she really is. A successful state politician who is still in a learning curve concerning some of the national issues. Unquestionably her honesty and the fact that she has the courage of her convictions came through loud and clear. She is just who she claims to be, a middle class American who has experienced many of the trials and tribulations that we all have. It is hard to believe that the Democrats attempt to make an issue concerning her experience when their beloved Bill Clinton had accomplished less during his role as governor prior to be elected as President. Biden, as expected, demonstrated the fact that he is just another political hack who spoke to the citizens just as if he were delivering “vote for my bill” speech to his cronies on capital hill. He was well rehearsed and in usual politician fashion mistated several facts. (with politicians the media chooses to call them misstatements although we all know that they are just outright lies). Biden habitually made references to the past failed 8 years but conveniently neglected to mention why the senate and house democratic majority of the past 2 years failed to enabled the passage of one subtanitive piece of legislation. Obviously Pelosi’s highly negative demeanor is cancerous and has an influence on even the old guard like Biden. No accountability on the Democratic side – just blame anything and everything on the Republicans even when they are no longer in power! The bottom line is that the job of President will be decided by us the people. If we were all of the mind set that we were acting in the capacity of an employer making the decision about filling an important job vacancy predicated soley upon the resume of two potential employees the choice may become much more clear. Forget the tainted media b.s. They love to tell us what we should think. Look at the resumes of the two guys from which we must choose. On one hand, we have a guy who is very pragmatic with many ideas that sound wonderful but without any idea of how to pay for their implementation. He was in the real world job market for only a couple of years, did some community organizer work, served one term in the state senate and has actually worked as a US Senator for about one year of his two year term. Bottom line – Obama just shouldn’t not be given the opportunity to fill the job vacancy. He can talk the talk but just has not walked the walk and the job he is applying for is not for novices looking to find a career.

  13. Howdy, Yadida. We are sorry that this darned message system does not allow us to respond directly to each individual so it is obvious, so hopefully, you read our response.

    You say you are no label? Are you animal or vegetable?

    We would argue that Obama is no more qualified than Palin. And quite honestly, Biden said exactly that about Obama in the Primary Debates. And Obama is running for President with about the same amount of experience as Palin.

    We think you should read our article again. We did not say Palin was any great shakes as a debator and said she was nervous. But this was her first nationwide debate. Biden could have won the debate in our eyes if he stuck to the issues, but he was so busy being bitter that we ended up disliking him.

    We do not want to hear for the next four or eight years, “Bush sucks”. We can hear that from any Cromagnon on the internet or elsewhere. We want solutions. The Dems seem full of them, but haven’t explained how they will execute a single one.

    Read this, we think you will enjoy it.


  14. Wow Howard, did we seem that liberal?

    Biden wasted too much time being trite and petty and not enough time on the issues. He came across as a grumpy old man that has been in the game way too long.

    Palin came across as an honest young person (just like Obama does) that is newer to the game and not quite as versed.

    Biden has shown already winning debates verbally means nothing. In the primaries, he debated extremely well, knew the issues, etc. but he didn’t win votes. He has a forgettable bitter persona.

    Because he didn’t tell us anything new that would convince us to vote for the Democreats, and because we are sick of the negative politics being spewed from his mouth in every other sentence, we graded him very low on the likability factor.

    Now, if you don’t think that is important, you can go back to many debates that were won primarily based on likability. Kennedy/Nixon comes to mind. Reagan/Carter as well.

    Biden has to work on attacking less and focusing on the positive and the issues more. We can listen to jokesters complaining all day long about the Bush Administation. We want to know HOW the Democrats will make anything better.

  15. I completely disagree with how you have portrayed this debate. I am neither a “liberal”, a “democrat”, a “republican” or any other such label. It was clear that Gov. Palin is neither prepared nor qualified to be vice-president of this country during one of the most trying times in recent history. Although she might be likeable, she did not clearly answer any of the questions and constantly spoke in circles in order to avoid answering the questions. In my opinion, not sounding like an idiot on national TV does not make you the “winner” of a debate. Also, I didn’t know much about Biden prior to the debate, but I found him extremely likeable. His comportment during the debate was very professional and nothing about him seemed bitter. It was also quite clear that Palin tried very hard to attack the democratic party/platform (though usually through completely false accusations), so I heartily disagree that Biden should be dismissed because of his attacks on McCain. Furthermore, he actually answered most of the questions instead of dismissing them, or opting to speak some unrelated topic. I don’t dislike Sarah Palin, but I would be incredibly uncomfortable having her run the country since she clearly lacks knowledge in key issues, which I find completely unacceptable.

  16. Truth be told Moater, we don’t care what people like you think of us. It is all here in this article.


    Our reaction is to let you know that everyone that is not a left wing liberal is NOT a propagandist or a bigot, although that is how liberals seem to feel. Sorry, “you people” have to learn. LOL.

    “You people” would be liberals in our classification here. But we get some far right wingers almost as rude and incapable of sensible dialogue as you. So let’s instead let it stand for the people that don’t have the intelligence to write their own articles and come on here and accuse us of bias, propaganda or what have you.

    If you feel passionate that you can do better by the way, our articles come from a range of people, and you can get published, well, if you have more intelligence than you portrayed in your message. Check the website for details.

  17. Hi Amanda…

    Palin only lost in the liberal’s eyes. If you are reading CNN and the HuffingtonPost, Biden would have won in their eyes if he was a babbling babboon.

    Of course, he isn’t, but he was too negative and non-specific for us to like him.

  18. You know, it amazes me how much the rules change when it’s the Republican party who might win.

    In the first debate between Obama & McCain – McCain clearly had more substance. However, Obama appeared more “presidential” and charismatic. In short, he was more likable. So he won.

    In this debate, it was the exact opposite. Palin was more likable. But she lost?

    Give me a break. This is where you start grabbing for straws for anything to throw against her.

  19. Reality TV: What do you mean by “you people”? “And you people are being totally unfair to Palin.” Are you a bigot as well as a right wing propagandist? The main reason we shouldn’t let Palin anywhere near the White House is encapsulated nicely in your sycophantic attempt to support her – style over substance, folksy anecdotes over a reasoned argument. You, and notice I didn’t say “you people” but merely YOU, a single individual with a podium, make me sick.

  20. Come on, the bar was so low for Palin it was on the ground. All she had to do is spout the talking points on her list, bring up the stats she memorized and not look like a moose in the headlights and the right would be thrilled. So she passed. No major gaffes. But that lowest of low bars gave her an unfair advantage too. She had the latitude to be snarky where Biden couldn’t response lest he be deemed to be picking on poor Sarah. It’s like two students taking the same test but one student getting a 40-point bonus because not much was expected of him or her. On the SAT you get points for just filling in your name, right? Well Palin got 1400 points on her “SAT” last night for just forming reasonably coherent sentences. Of course if this was a real debate with real scoring she would have been trounced on points. You DO NOT get to return to a previous point especially after you had been given the chance for a response. Go off topic ONCE and it’s a point off. Each subsequent off-topic reach and it gets much worse. And what was with the 8.5×11-inch note paper. I’ve never seen a candidate for any office have sheet paper for notes? Always 3×5 or smaller index cards. I bet that ream of paper she brought in with her was crammed full of talking points and stats.

  21. Come on, the bar was so low for Palin it was on the ground. All she had to do is spout the talking points on her list, bring up the stats she memorized and not look like a moose in the headlights and the right would be thrilled. So she passed. No major gaffes. But that lowest of low bars gave her an unfair advantage too. She had the latitude to be snarky where Biden couldn’t response lest he be deemed to be picking on poor Sarah. It’s like two students taking the same test but one student getting a 40-point bonus because not much was expected of him or her. On the SAT you get points for just filling in your name, right? Well Palin got 1400 points on her “SAT” last night for just forming reasonably coherent sentences. Of course if this was a real debate with real scoring she would have been trounced on points. You DO NOT get to return to a previous point especially after you had been given the chance for a response. Go off topic ONCE and it’s a point off. Each subsequent off-topic reach and it gets much worse.

  22. Reality TV.
    I am glad you can understand why ‘you liberals are upset that Biden didn’t wipe the floor with Palin’ only that hardly describes my state of being. I did not think that was going to happen, and rather than fall into tired metaphors, I tried to relate through my own reactions and history. Historically, who won the VP debate has little to no influence on the election results. I allowed that is was a win for both.

    To grade the debate on the basis that Palin isn’t in the same league as Biden [which makes a statement unto itself], and therefore not failing makes her the winner is both unfair to her and the moral equivalent of grading with the Bell Curve, only not the full class, just the cherry-picked individual. I did not find Biden to be bitter, but respectfully allow you did.

  23. I am young, and this is the first election I have payed attention to. My parents have never voted nor had any sort of political agenda, so I feel when i write the following, you won’t be able to blindly label my comment as “liberal bias”, as I formed my political affiliation over only the last several months.

    You are completely fooling yourself if you believe the Obama/Biden ticket is bitter and slanderous. You did not watch the debate as an objective person, YOU already made up your mind who was going to win, barring Palin coming off as ridiculous as she has in all the interviews. Biden’s slander of McCain and Bush, to me, came off as a plea to the American people who believe Palin’s BS, begging these simple-minded fools to not fall for the Republican’s tactics and have a mind of their own for once, and realize that the reason why we are in the mess we are in today is because the Bush administration ran our country into the ground.

    Palin was so condescending and rude, that every time she spoke I got sick to my stomach that not every single person could see through her BS. I’m glad Biden called them out for claiming to be “Mavericks”. It’s disgusting, and so obvious what they are doing. Trying to get the “Joe Sixpacks” of the world to think “I’m voting for this guy, he’s a badass”.

    The real scary thing about Palin appealing to so many Americans, is that it shows just how dumb the average American is.

  24. I feel lucky to find this article seemed very fair and balanced.As to the debate i was very impressed with palin being able to competently debate with a proffesional debater.she really did speak to the commom person..one thing i am tired of hearing is the blame game and comparing mccain to bush these two men have butted heads in the past.mccain really dislikes bush and his policies.please if you want my vote quit trying to compare mccain to bush,thats like comparing apples to oranges.i too would love to know how all these promises are going to be kept or accomplished.

  25. This is the most biased review of the debate I have read all day. I am in shock. I’m an independent who is still determining who to vote for (leaning Obama after last night) and for anyone to claim Sarah Palin won the debate is just nonsensical. She dodged questions, sounded rehearsed and made it a point to either discuss energy or her being a mother in every question she answered. She never addressed how her policies would differ at all from the current policies and Biden gave her chance after chance to do so. She won by default because she didn’t react how SNL thought she would? What an absurd suggestion. This is a debate. not a chess game. If she can’t handle Biden, how can she handle negotiating with other world leaders?

  26. Palin totaly lost the debate…she had key speaking points that she went over with the Mcsame camp to prepare her…much like you would train a dog a new trick…Bidin couldnt attack her or he would look like a bully picking on a girl..but his voice of change and not more of the same is obviously enough to get people excited…just look at your polls here…sorry republicans your bright idea to get a woman no one knows anything about to help get this old man Mcsame in office is not working..OBAMA BIDIN 08

  27. Thomas, we don’t believe in conspiracy theories? Could Biden have been wired? Could you be wired?

    Cyndee. First we don’t care if we are sexist, racist or biased. We are what we are. One of our primary articles on the site is all about that. Everyone is sexist, racist or biased to some degree, so the debates have to deal with that.

    But no, we don’t buy your claim if Biden had won, we would have said it was sexist, and we think that claim is sexist. Whoops. if Biden had focused on the hows in his presentation instead of sounding like a petty, bitter liberal, he would likely have easily won that debate and left Palin wondering what hit her. He didn’t, so he came across as bitter and negative while Palin came across as bright and positive. We believe Biden presented one thing we consider very wrong in politics, the blame game. And he let it take up way too much time he could have used promoting his policies.

  28. I think Palin did an amazing job with conveying to the American people what she has done in her past. Let’s face it most American’s have no clue what is going on in their own state never the less Alaska. Biden on the other hand if I recall correctly and I can be very wrong but wasn’t he the guy removed from the ticket a few decades ago for plagiarism? I think that with all the experience he has he should have made me feel confident and assured and honestly he didn’t. Obama has zero to no experience running anything and on that ticket it would be Biden’s experience we would have to lean on.

    Palin was confident and posed. Seeing someone come off as an “it is what it is” a normal person in the running will let the masses identify better. I do believe that McCain needs her to balance out. They will make a good team. I hate hearing people nit pick at her facial expressions and her appearance (something they would never do to either of the other three parties in the running) as if she is being held to a higher standard. It is disturbing that everyone speaks about her representing a small town and a small state but lets face it most of America is comprised of little towns and she would be a perfect representative of the real people. Last I checked that silver spoon was not a requirement of higher office and maybe that is exactly the change we have all been so desperately looking for.

    Biden has been here before and wants a political life he will flip flop anyway he has to.. to get it. She was asked to run and stepped up to the plate. Well done Palin I was impressed with how you handled yourself with only 5 weeks of prep.

  29. If Biden would have wiped the floor with Palin, then you would have called him sexist and condescending. Biden won the debate, you know if and everyone else does. Palin deserves no credit. She was reading from cue cards.

  30. Hi Howard,

    You also missed our point. Perhaps that is our fault.

    The issue here is like two football teams. It is the New England Patriots playing the lowly St. Louis Rams and ending up in a tie. The perception in that instance is the victory was with the severe underdog.

    We can understand you liberals are upset Biden didn’t wipe the floor with Palin in this debate. He should have, but he spent too much time being bitter. We don’t like that, and don’t find it a useful debate tactic.

    This was Palin in her very first national debate and Biden, a seasoned veteran with 30 years of national debates, speaking in Congress and running for President. And you know what? He didn’t win. For that reason alone, he lost.

  31. Hi Carl…

    Our comment is still the same. If Biden had come out positive about his policies and specified HOW his ticket would deliver what they are promising as change, we would be more positive. Being moderates, he just sounded bitter and angry. Made him seem like a grumpy old man.

    And you people are being totally unfair to Palin. She was practiced a bit because this is her very first national debate. But she did fantastic for being under this kind of pressure for the very first time. She got her points across just as well and had way less bitterness and showed way more respect for the other side. She came across more like a person than a politician.

    To us a politician is like a lawyer, they are trained to get you to talk in circles. And Palin had to stick to her agenda to avoid getting drawn into that fray. She did a great job, was likable and likely appealed to many Americans.

  32. Hi Ral…

    You sound almost as bitter as Biden did during the debate. Even when he smiled, it looked like his gut was tied in a complete knot.

    You think Palin was rude for violating the format when Biden went off on a tirade about McCain being a Maverick instead of answering the next question?

    Wow. And I suppose anyone that smiles and tries to be genuine is a bad person in your mind.

    You just sound like another bitter Democrat to us. As moderates we try to glean the positive out of a campaign. We are sick of the blame game in Washington. If you say you are going to change things we want to know how. Otherwise all it is is bitterness, hollow promises and lies, something we have seen many times.

    We have reviewed many of the issues and found, in many cases, both sides make promises without the hows. But we have found the Democrats attacking bitter children. And this was no different. Palin did speak out against some Democratic Positions, but Biden made it clear his agenda was to attack rather than promote his policies. We don’t vote for that kind of person because we don’t want to hear it for the next four years, or eight.

    Gee, we would have done what we promised, but things were so much worse due to the past administration than we thought. The blame game is alive and well and living in the Democratic ticket.

  33. I certainly disagree with you on likability. Just because someone smiles when they insult, does not make them likable. Palin’s “aw shucks, I’m just a country girl, I don’t know your big city lying ways” act stood in stark contrast to the whoppers she kept telling.

    Palin was also rude and dismissive, both to Biden, and to the moderator. She had agreed to the format, then announced she wouldn’t abide by it, “cause I’m just gonna talk straight to the American people”. How condescending is it to assume that we don’t want to hear the questions answered? She interrupted the moderator, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a candidate jump in and tell the moderator that they will answer the question first . She also made snide remarks about the media, which the moderator is a part of. Very ungracious and unprofessional behavior on her part – the fact that she frequently and inappropriately smiled through all of this behavior did not make her more likable to me – I found it very off-putting..

    And what was up with that, “I’ve only been here five weeks” thing? Is it possible she’ll try and use her inexperience to get out of answering questions, but then claim she has all the experience needed to take charge?

    And, speaking of taking charge, I’m sorry, but if the candidate for vice president does not know the Constitutional limitations of the job, then she is not qualified to ask for it, let alone to plan on expanding it before she even gets sworn in.

    Good grief, the woman is a disaster. A grinning disater with a meanstreak.

    And lipstick, of course.

  34. Had Biden said the same things in the same way as Palin he would be on the short bus home. Palin acted as if she was in a contest to spew out all that she had memorized. Oh and does anybody think Putin will be impressed when she winks at HIM and lowers her voice into a whisper?

  35. Wow, I watched the debate and saw it very differently. I thought both started out with some nerves, with a couple of stumbles over words by Biden, and Palin talking at a 1,000 miles per hour. both settled down, and it could have been a very nice debate, but I truly felt Biden answered more of the actual questions asked, and had a fully comprehension of the subject matter. Perhaps it was the speed of her delivery, but I certainly didn’t find her very warm tonight, while Biden had a several real connections, including a great moment about his family.

    Sorry, but not failing at a debate does not mean a win for me. By that standard, as long as Palin didn’t fall out of her podium, she was the winner. And it is possible they both won tonight, as neither screwed up, and neither will be an issue in the election. Ultimately, neither would have been anyway, for Dan Quayle proved the VP has little to no effect on the election results.

  36. Since when did our standards for real statesmanship sink so low?
    Why haven’t good Republicans risen up in mass discordance against this foolish lowering of expectations for the leaders of our nation who affect our children’s futures? Where is the knowledge, wisdom and greatness in Palin? She shows no true shade of it. It’s not good enough for my family, and I want to know why it’s good enough for you, fellow citizen.
    One of my heroes is a historian Clay Jenkinson, who portrays Thomas Jefferson on the radio. He also does Theodore Roosevelt, Merriwether Lewis (of Lewis and Clark), and several others. It was my good fortune to see him perform as Theodore Roosevelt on my birthday. He used no props (other than a period costume and Roosevelt’s trademark mustache and silk hat), but he didn’t need them. It was the finest and most meaningful evening of political theatre I have ever seen, or am likely to.
    Clay did nothing less than reach back into time to let the greatness of Roosevelt’s life shine through. He just channeled the wisdom, love of country and true concern for citizens that was the basis of Roosevelt’s presidency. Not a moment rang false. Not a word was wasted. We all sprang to our feet at the end of the performance because the truth of what being an American leader really SHOULD be leaped into our hearts through our eyes and ears and lit a fire!
    There was no question, seeing that, about what hugeness of soul, heart and mind we should seek today in the men and women we place in high office. Palin doesn’t make that cut even at the 4th or 5th degree. It doesn’t mean she someday won’t, but she is unquestionably far from it today.
    I want and demand better. I resent being asked to sign off on a counterfeit.
    I won’t support nonsensical candidates just to win at any cost. That cost will ultimately be our greatness as a nation. No more for me and my family. We won’t be voting for Palin.

  37. Sorry Fred,

    Sounds like you went into the debate already having your winner chosen. Of course Palin was more practiced and less experienced. But Biden was bitter and spent most of his time attacking McCain without providing any direction as to how we get where we want to go.

    So, in our opinion, neither stood out as a VP candidate, and that makes Palin the winner because no one will vote for Obama/Biden based on that debate. In fact, it may come down to who is the most likable, and it certainly wasn’t Biden.

  38. You must have watched this debate translated with Babelfish into Italian. Palin ignored most of the rather easy questions, constantly repeating herself attcking on the same fw points she was tutored in, sounded like a robot, made nos ense whatsoever about global warming. The most cogent thing she said, her slip, “McCain will be leaving…”

    Meanwhile Biden answered every question including most of Palin’s simplistic accusations.

    Sorry, Joe Six PAck should stay home on the couch watching Tv, not be in the Whiye House where one actually has to know details and nuance and big words and what they mean.

    If you want to think she won because she didn’t make a fool of herself, that’s one thing, but to claim it was the opposite of what it was, is laughable. Also quite hilarious was in the presidential debate McCain’s parrot line was Obama didn’t understand [because he is neophant and naive] yet in this debate her winning point is supposed to be she doesn’t really know much and, well, shucks, so what? That is refreshing.

    Oh give me a break. The rules made the answers short enough that she wouldn’t run out and start sounding incoherent, no follow up questions so she wouldn’t run out of things to say.. If this was reveresed and Obama had picked such a simple person you would be forcing her resignation, we’d never hear the end of it.

    Look in the mirror and tell me who won, the person who actually knew what the questions meant or Palin’s regurgitated talking points?

    The closedt thing to this is the movie where Peter Sellers plays a “slow” guy who somehow ends up president, what was that called? I have thought until now it was Bush but he looks like a lucid pacifist next to McCain and Palin.

  39. Ah, I see what you’re saying. I think Palin was helped by the single debate format, as she was able to stay on message the entire time without having to directly answer any question. Biden very well could have been spouting out memorized lines as well, but he seemed more natural at it, or, speaking from his experience instead of talking points. Either way, good post.

  40. What we meant, and we hope it was clear, is that Biden with over 30 years of experience and being a known top political debate specialist, should have whipped Palin. He didn’t. It would be like putting a chess master and an amateur across the table from each other and having the game end in a draw. Certainly, that is the equivalent of a huge loss for the chess master.

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